Shibayama Tsutomu’s Work Part 3 Mori Takeshi (Director) [Part 2]

A slurpI was seconded to Dean for Ranma and haven’t returned to Asiado. I went to Pierro and directed “Edokko Boy Gatentasuke,” which Kobayashi (Osamu) refused. Dean goes to Gainax and does “Nadia of the Mysterious Sea.” And then I got freelance along the way.

HongoHaven’t you returned?

A slurpIt’s not back. Even when I work at Piero and Gaina, working with Shibayama seems to be of help. For example, I think I was able to develop my eyes to the point where I met Suzuki Shunji, Tsurumaki Kazuya, Honda Yu, and other people on Gainax, so I thought, “Oh, this guy is amazing.”

HongoYes yes.

A slurpThis is part of what Shibayama taught me, but I think it was meaningful to be able to share the timing of “Do-Gen-Frog” with the Gaina guys.

HongoAfter that, I wonder if you’ll be working with Shibayama-san to be “Seriously Seriously Kaiketsu Zorori”?

A slurpthat’s right. This is the third year of “Zorori,” and it was 2006 (editor’s note: From episode 51 of “Seriously Fumari Kaiketsu Zorori,” Shibayama Tsutomu was the general director, Kase Mitsuko was the director, and Mori Takeshi was the series. It was the third year since the previous series “Kaiketsu Zorori.”).

HongoDid you have no contact with Shibayama up until that point?

A slurpIt’s almost none.

HongoHow did you end up participating in “Zorori”? Did Asiado call you? From Okamura (Masahiro)?

A slurpyes. Here, it is. I was called to this place (a coffee shop in Ikebukuro) (lol).

Hongohere? Exactly?

A slurpHere. When I left Asiado, I was in a happy state, and was also called out to the director of “Fam & Ely (Secret Land Exploration)”.

HongoI see. What was the structure of the series for “Zorori”?

A slurpBefore I took part in, I had used up the original work, and in the third year I had to think about all the episodes and original stories. Okamura told me, “Think about it.” The original author, Hara Yutaka, also participated in the script meeting, and we talked with Hara and worked on writing the script.

HongoIn what position did Shibayama-san take part?

A slurpHis title was general manager. Because I’m thinking about the story, there is a difference in tone from the original story, and there is a difference in temperature. Professor Hara asks me about this, “What is this?” If that happens, it won’t be a controversy, but the meeting will last longer.

HongoWell, that’s true.

A slurpFrom around the second and third episodes, Shibayama started drawing pictures on the edges of the first draft of the scenario and in the margins. Something like an image board.

HongoI’ve seen it before, but it was an incredibly good painting (editor’s note: some of it is featured in the Mook in “Seriously Serious Kaiketsu Zorori”).

A slurpThat’s right. He brings it. When I saw this, Professor Hara quickly understood what he was going to do and said, “Ah, yes, yes.” Hara-sensei began to look forward to Shibayama’s paintings. That’s why Shibayama really helped me. It’s not about the content of the story, but about the persuasiveness of Shibayama’s paintings.

HongoDid you have 52 in your third year?

A slurpI did it for almost a year.

HongoShibayama-san over that year’s worth.

A slurpAlmost all of it.

HongoDid you draw one or two pictures each time?

A slurpIt’s not just one or two. If it’s most, it’s a dozen points.

HongoSimply put, I drew nearly 500 of them.

A slurpI agree. The image board is designed to suit the scene, so it also serves as an art setting. For example, if there is “front of the fire station” in the scenario, I would draw a Showa fire station without looking at anything.

HongoShibayama-san draws without looking.

A slurpWhen I asked him, “Shibayama-san, how can you draw something like this?” he replied, “Well, I remember it for some reason.”

HongoThat’s amazing, isn’t it?

A slurpFor example, when it comes to the setting of a residential area with perspective at the back, it’s a single line with a vanishing point in the back.

HongoYes yes.

A slurpThe roads are normally bent and should be undulating. The drawings that Shibayama draw also reproduce that kind of thing. The drawings that Shibayama draws are so realistic that you’ll wonder, “Did you trace a photo somewhere?” The ups and downs.

HongoSince it was created through Shibayama’s eyes, I feel that it is quite convincing as an incredible painting.

A slurpThat kind of thing overlaps with Miyazaki-san. I might get mad if I say this.

HongoMaybe those two could have done that.

A slurpThere’s no one there. Maeda Mahiro was the only person in their generation who thought the same thing. He’s amazing.

HongoApparently it is.

A slurpHe is also a person who can draw pictures using the drawers in his brain. Among the things I saw I found amazing were Miyazaki, Shibayama, and Maeda Mahiro. I think the term genius is for the sake of such people.

HongoSo, although it’s not all of the episodes, he wrote the layout of “The Adventures of Gamba” by himself throughout the series. A normal person can’t do that amount of work, right? Miyazaki Hayao painted the layout of all the episodes in “Heidi, the Girl of the Alps” and “San Thousand Seven Strips,” and no one would continue after that. I think it’s because of the people like that that have created the foundation for Japanese anime.

A slurpI think Shibayama-san’s Adventures was depicted under the ties of a house in “The Adventures of Gamba,” but they do the rounds by replacing three books. I once tried to copy this and failed with Nadia, and was laughed at Anno (Hideaki).

HongoMochizuki (Tomomitsu) did it too.

A slurpoh yeah. So when I talked to Mochizuki, he said, “I made a mistake too!”

HongoBy the way, have you ever seen Shibayama-san play?

A slurpThere’s only one time. This is the “Dragonfly Tree” that I talked about earlier. Also, although it wasn’t a meeting I attended, I’ve heard of it on the spot.

HongoI’m “Igano Kabamaru” or “Old Stories.” I’ve never played a film with any other direction other than Shibayama, so I used to play it by imitating Shibayama’s monkey.
Shibayama-san uses different tones of voice and reads out the characters’ lines, such as, “What is it, Nobita!”, “Don’t take it easy, Nobita,” and “Nobita-san.” I was thinking that it was something that would make a film, but one day I was asked, “Why do Asiado people use their tones to create films?” (laughs). So I thought, “No one is doing it with this.”

A slurpSince I was in Kobayashi’s group, it would be a Kobayashi-san’s meeting.

HongoAh, I see. Does Kobayashi-san use voice tone?

A slurpI don’t use it.

HongoAh, I see. I’ve never seen someone else play, so I really think that’s what makes it a film.

A slurpOf the two masters, the person I worked directly at was Kobayashi Osamu. “Orange Road” and “Burning! I was doing “Onii-san.”

HongoGoing back to the subject, he released his original web novel “Santa Cruz” in 2007, following the flow of “Zorori.”

A slurpyes. When we were close in Zorori, I happened to be publishing a novel in “Tornado Base” (editor’s note: an online magazine that started in 2006, which was updated until 2008), so I begged Shibayama-san to the point of nowhere. I was blessed with Okamura on Zorori (lol), so when I asked him through Okamura, Shibayama accepted the idea by saying, “It’s fine.”

HongoCan you still read that?

A slurpI can’t read it anymore. I have the manuscripts and have saved data on the paintings that Shibayama drew.

HongoSo, if Shibayama’s art book is published, it might be a good idea to publish it.

A slurpOf course, of course. I have the data at me.

HongoSo, did you add an order at that time?

A slurpI haven’t put anything on it. I asked him to say, “I’ve written something like this, so I’m very grateful, but could you please draw an illustration?” When asked, “Which painting do you want?” Shibayama asked me to draw what I had come up with. Then, the scene was really accurate and even more cool than I had hoped.

HongoI think it’s a rare part of Shibayama’s work, as a properly read illustration story.

A slurpI’m really grateful.

HongoAfter that, will it be the script and shape of the 2012 and 2013 film “Seriously Fumari Kaiketsu Zorori”?

A slurpAt that time, Shibayama-san was no longer involved.

HongoOh, is that so?

A slurpAt that time, the director also replaced Kase-san with Iwasaki Tomoko. So I was called and the scenario was probably the first two or three.

Hongo2012’s film, “Kaiketsu Zorori”! Shibayama’s name appears in the role of supervising the character, but in reality.

A slurpHis name is listed, but he hasn’t done it much vinegar.

HongoSo, the last person I got to do with Shibayama was Santa Cruz.

A slurpthat’s right. I haven’t been involved in work since then.

HongoAfter that, did you meet a group that surrounds Shibayama? I wonder how many times I’ve held the Master’s meeting, I wonder if I did it 4 or 5 times.

A slurpYes, I’ve done it 4 or 5 times. Thanks to Hongo-san’s call, Shibayama finally opened his heart to us.

HongoMaybe that’s true (lol). I guess he was a little happy.

A slurpSo, up until then, I was definitely a boss and subordinate.

HongoI agree. There was a sense of distance.

A slurpI guess he finally got accepted. Let us get drunk and force us.

HongoIt made me say my true feelings (lol).

A slurpoh yeah. Make them say their true feelings. Then they were forced to be certified as a disciple. He says, “Is it okay if we’re disciples?” and says, “I understand. You’re all disciples.”

HongoThere was a year-end party for Shinei when he just left Asiado. While I was doing Waaaa with a lot of people, the TV Asahi producer asked me, “Is Hongo-chan a gay?” “No, but,” he replied, “Shibayama-san has just come, and he said he’s a traitor and a gay man.”

A slurpHe’s from Asakusa and has a bad mouth.

HongoBut that made me a little happy. It seems like they’ll talk bad about it because they accepted it. If it doesn’t matter, then I won’t say it, right? When I held the Master’s meeting several times, Shibayama said, “Hongo-kun looks like me. His mouth is bad.” I thought, “Is it just there?” But I was a little happy.

A slurpYes, yes.

HongoIt’s really stylish, overall.

A slurpSo I think he’s a cool guy.

HongoThat’s right. Don’t make relationships too sticky. Get results at work. Isn’t it like he supported Asiado for decades?

A slurpThat’s right, isn’t it? That’s because Shibayama-san was the majority of the sales.

HongoShibayama has decided on a job and distributes the job to everyone. I’ve asked Shibayama, “Why can you do so much?” and he said, “It’s because you’re responsible” (laughs).

A slurp(lol). I did a few similar things in Gonzo’s time, but it’s impossible. I can’t do it like Shibayama-san.

HongoA normal person would think, “What benefits does that have for me?” But Shibayama did it for decades. This was when I was still at Asiado, but after working hard, “Shibayama-san, please do this too,” and “I’d like to ask for this too,” I once heard Shibayama-san say to himself, “Nothing is something I can do.” I thought it was tough for Shibayama-san too.

A slurpNo, because it’s an incredible amount of work. I’m not even close to my feet. When I was in Asiado, I once worked five of them. I couldn’t get home on New Year’s Eve, so I got a fever and once I was greeted by New Year’s Day in the back room of two Asiano stars, but I’m more at work than I did back then. Shibayama had made that work done and made a quick decision.

HongoThat’s right, that’s it.

A slurpI learned from Shibayama that “Immediately Make a Decision” word. “Professionals make an immediate decision and make an immediate decision.”

HongoThat story came up when I asked Otake (Masae) the other day, but Shibayama doesn’t have time to be confused. The moment I sit at my desk, I start drawing. Ordinary people have time to sit down and say things like, “Ahhh” or “Hehh,” but it’s amazing how the moment they sit they move their hands and can’t stop.

A slurpI felt this even when I was working from a nearby seat. You can see that by the presence of that. I can’t see him, but I can see him staying there forever and moving his hands.

HongoI’m moving my hands.

A slurpThat’s scary, really.

HongoI’ve never seen anyone like that before.

A slurpI don’t think I’m lazy.

HongoIf it’s nearby.

A slurpThe other veterans nearby are doing their jobs leisurely (lol).

HongoOn the surface, Shibayama doesn’t care that other people can’t do the same thing as him.

A slurpI’ve never heard of Shibayama’s proud talk, but I’ve heard that he drew 900 photos in one night when he was playing “Wolf Boy Ken.”

Hongo(lol).

A slurpBecause I draw everything in one shot.

HongoIt must be a one-shot drawing.

A slurpBut I wonder what the number is 900.

HongoWell, it must be early. I can see the drawings of people who are skilled and fast, and it’s almost like tracing them.

A slurpThat was also said. “How can I draw it?” “Well, I can see it, so I’m tracering it.”

HongoI’ve been doing about 20 Doraemon theatres, and I’ve been doing a solo concert every year.

A slurpYou don’t have to draw the cover, but you’re drawing amazing pictures for the cover.

Hongooh yeah. He draws elaborate drawings for the cover. That’s also stylish. It seems like it’s done so that it looks like there’s room from the edges.

A slurpShibayama once said, “Containers are the best job for me.” “You guys are coming over and doing something terrible.”

HongoI heard that when Shibayama got drunk. “We all stopped by and ruined my copy.”

A slurpThat’s all in one word. I actually think so, but I don’t usually say it out loud.

HongoShibayama asked him to draw an illustration from an editorial department that had nothing to do with the anime from another publisher, and he told me, “Your painting is cold.” I remember that I was so angry.

A slurp(lol).

HongoBut there are some things I understand. Sometimes you can include something like passion in an art. Kobayashi-san is not a person of passion. Shibayama is the type who doesn’t want to include that.

A slurpYou’re a embarrassed person.

Hongooh yeah.

A slurpI understand.

HongoI feel passionate and jealous, but I try not to be pretentious about it. I think there are some things that think that’s how cool it is.

A slurpThat’s why I think he was paired with Kobayashi.

HongoI agree. It’s a pair, isn’t it? If they were both Kobayashi-san’s type, they would have a big fight.

A slurpoh yeah. I’m breaking away soon.

HongoYou’re breaking away, right? For a while, they were Fujiko’s Fujio-like spirit, and Shibayama and Kobayashi were working together in Asiado.

A slurpIn “Do-Genji Frog,” I heard that one episode was divided into the first half and the second half, and that each person wrote it in “Seino.”

HongoApparently that was the case when they were doing it under the pen name Asiado. When I was doing “The Old Story,” he said he took half the scenario home and tried it at home to match it.

A slurpI remembered it from “The Old Story.” The problem of “using too many copies” has once erupted at Asiado. That’s what touched Kobayashi’s anger.

HongoAh (lol).

A slurpAt that time, Shibayama made “Old Stories” with 500 copies. Make full use of camera work. I almost had a stop slide and finished with 500 sheets. The technique of showing it with camera work at that time remained for me.

HongoKobayashi says that, but when you play “The Old Story,” you’ll end up with an incredible number of copies.

A slurpIt was getting amazing (lol).

HongoBut when people put a lot of tickets on it, they get mad. Because he’s a manager.

A slurpSpeaking of Kobayashi, he also has an amazing timing.

HongoThat’s amazing, isn’t it?

A slurpThere was also a question of, “What, are you using five frames in a place like this?!”

HongoShibayama also praised Kobayashi’s timing. My first job was taking photos of Shibayama-san and Kobayashi-san. I think it was great to be able to see the two of them doing work up close at first. Kobayashi’s talk is often undersized, and even though it only lasts 10 minutes, it’s not more than 2 minutes, so Kobayashi said, “You can just extend all the cuts by 2 seconds.”

A slurp(lol).

HongoShibayama’s stuff is well made, and it’s all like a package. Kobayashi’s is surprisingly about.

A slurpIt feels like Nagashima (Shigeo).

Hongooh yeah. The two of them have been doing the same work for a long time, but their methodology is completely different. That’s what really makes animation interesting.

A slurpThat has become Asiado’s personality.

HongoIt’s individuality. Those two were the main focus, followed by Kawachi and Yamada. In addition, Suda was there. There is no doubt that this was Asiado’s style.

A slurpI think so.

HongoShibayama directed Doraemon, Chibi Maruko-chan and Nintama Rantaro, and all of them continue to this day. The number of hours of these films made is incredible. That’s in the world It’s been circulating, and it’s definitely true that people who watched it have become anime lovers.

A slurpWhat’s more, they’re creating the basis for these works. First I made a manual for my work.

HongoThat part is not highly regarded in the world, but I think it’s extremely difficult to get a work into orbit.

A slurpI think it’s difficult.

HongoShibayama-san might be the best word for the term craftsman.

A slurpYou’re a craftsman, right?

HongoIn terms of architecture, it’s not just a luxurious three-story mansion, but a one-story building that is easy for anyone to live in. And you can avoid putting yourself too much and follow the things created by the original author. I think he’s someone with that kind of ability.

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Interview date and time: June 14, 2024 Interview: Hongo Mitsuru Composition: I am Anime Editorial Department

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Mori Takeshi. Director and director. His representative directorial works include Vandred, Stratos Four, and Undiscovered Exploration Femme & Ely.